Detective Diaries - Podcast 'Surveillance Private Detective'

TRANSCRIPT

Private Detective Surveillance

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Welcome to Detective Diaries brought to you by Private Detectives' Answers Investigation.

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If you are captivated by the art of deduction, the thrill of solving the unsolvable, or the

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enigmatic world of private investigation, you've just found your new favourite podcast.

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Detective Diaries is where secrets unravel and the truth is always a clue away, presented

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by Private Detectives' Answers Investigation. Each episode contains offbeat conversations

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about the real people involved in investigation.

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Welcome back to Detective Diaries. Today I'm diving into surveillance, particularly some of

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the earlier jobs I had starting out as a private investigator, a day that started completely

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routine and then suddenly turned into something a lot more interesting. It's one of those cases

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that really showed me what the job is all about. Patience, instinct and being ready for anything.

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We thought it would be interesting to discuss two perspectives of surveillance. From me and also

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my colleague, Harry Watts, who's joined me here today. Hi Jess, its good to be here.

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At that stage in my career I hadn't done many cases where things changed so quickly,

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so I remember feeling this mix of excitement and pressure. There's this voice in your head going,

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'don't lose her, don't mess this up', but then your instincts kick in and you just do the job.

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Looking back, that case really helped build my confidence. It forced me to trust my

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own judgement, when someone suddenly jumps in a taxi, there's no time to doubt yourself.

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Started surveillance exercises, I had in my head that it would be a lot of waiting around without

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much action. And whilst this can partially be true, I have quickly learnt that it can be much more

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fast paced and very reactionary. I had always wondered how the different forms of surveillance would

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arise from having spent time with Harry on such cases, I'll let him delve into how this works a

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bit more. Yeah, do you know what, I think it's really important, what you've outlined, addressing

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that confidence it's really important. I mean circumstances for deploying surveillance can

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vary quite widely, can't they? You've got the aspects of having either static or mobile,

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so static being fixed, i.e. watching a property for example, obviously mobile surveillance,

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most normally utilising a vehicle or being on foot when you're travelling around following

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someone. London actually is notorious isn't it? I know you've had a bit of experience with this,

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but it's busy, it's difficult, especially at peak travel times, so you're going to need multiple

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agents to get that coverage from all angles and assist, in case someone loses sight and someone

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will be in position for that. I mean, I remember following someone from Euston Station,

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I mean this must have been about four or five o'clock, and the droves of people coming out, no,

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they all emerged from all the businesses and the places of work, and you just kind of think,

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ooh god this, is actually a bit of an enjoyable test, isn't it? and make sure you know what you're doing?

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But yeah I mean generally surveillance, I mean you're likely to travel two or three times as much

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ground as the person you're following, and that's normally because of angles. You know, if you're

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following someone on foot, let's say again you're on that busy high street, you would want to be

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on the other side, probably looking about 45 degree angle on to them and so that this is when

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if they turn around you're not actually in their direct line of sight. So what about disguises?

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do you use them? I mean disguises, it can be helpful, certainly a high vis jacket, I carry around in the car,

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just in case you need to get them in an interesting site. But I wouldn't say it's truly necessary,

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you can certainly have a listen to our podcast about Guiseppi D'orsi to get a bit more about the

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Italian detective and his disguises but, I would say any agents who you know you've got bright colored

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outfits, hair that sticks out, eye catching characteristics, that's going to give you away,

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to try to minimise that where possible is important. But of course we have other

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things as well, technology and devices, I think most people would probably think we're rolling around

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with SLR cameras, giant lenses on them ,but no we've got a lot of discreet covert devices as well,

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an example is a pen camera, you know, so a lot of times you might actually need this, a bit of wearable

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camera and technology, obviously that's all going to change with metaglasses, mind you, but the

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pen camera is really simple and effective. Obviously you need a bit of training on it, you can't just

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simply pop it on and expect to get to the end of it, but you know you can use these devices in coffee

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cups and you can sit at a cafe for a long while so you're not actually having to sit there with that

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big camera. Yeah well that's all interesting, you know, you've been doing this for so many years now,

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do you get jaded by at all? I think one of the things is you have compartmentalisation,

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you know, each case while they might be similar in nature, are different at the end of the day,

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but it's actually the fun things in the stories you come away with, you know, I remember that a lot of

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cases you might be sat around, but you're chatting with the agent you're with, you know, passing the time,

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getting to know each other a bit more, because there's nothing quite like sat in the car with someone

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for six seven hours, you learn everything about them ,but you know I hate mornings, oh god I hate

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mornings, so if you tell me it's late night I'll be there in a heartbeat, if it's early morning, you'll

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probably hear a grumble from me, but that's just me so I'm sure it's a bit different for you.

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Yeah I mean don't get me wrong, I can't stand early mornings either, but yeah so in this case it started

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like any other, I'm parked up early, coffee in hand, ready for what I thought would be a pretty

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standard day and for the first half it was, you know the subject came out, ran a few errands,

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popped into a nail salon and honestly, sometimes surveillance feels like you're watching someone's

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personal vlog in real time, you know you see all the day to day stuff, the kind of things nobody

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ever thinks twice about, it's those slow movements where not much is happening,

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are actually a big part of this job, you know you're observing, you're documenting, you're staying

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alert, even when nothing's interesting going on, it's a weird blend of calm and focus, and weirdly

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I kind of love that, I enjoy not knowing how the day will unfold, you know every case feels like

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it's own little story line, I don't know if you enjoy that too, or? You know ,it's so true actually, the

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the whole blend of being hyper focused, but then also the moments of calm, you know you kind of think

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sometimes I've been sat here for so long, you beg for something to happen, and of course, when it does

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it explodes out into a hundred different things but yeah I think a lot of this compartmentalisation,

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and we just end up chatting don't we? Yeah, yeah we do, you know, one minute it's so quiet, the next minute

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you're scrambling to keep up, there's this puzzle like element to it where you're piecing together

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persons routine and movements without ever even interacting with them, you know I also really enjoy

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the discipline of it, blending into the backgrounds, staying unnoticed, being part of the environment

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without becoming part of the story, it's like being in an observer in someone else's movie.

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Very true, very true, but I think actually like you say that being an observer in someone else's

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story, it kind of brings something to mind, it's probably one of the weirdest and humerus moments

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when I was actually in the vehicle doing some static surveillance, that whenever you're watching

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property it's never the person you're watching that causes an issue, it's always the neighbours isn't it?

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Yeah yeah, always the neighbours being nosy, on this occasion sat outside probably six, seven hours

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so you know it's significant amount of time, but half way through Lady Comes to my car window,

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essentially to ask what I was loitering around for, fair question right, so I had a chat with her

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settled things down, not giving anything away of course, and then she returned much to my surprise

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with a cup of tea, tapped on the window, told me to leave the cup by the door when I was done,

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I couldn't believe my luck, just sat in a cold car, warm cup of tea, what a delight.

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Yeah well I've actually had sort of similar situation, you know I was sat outside just waiting

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and someone came over to me and thought I was homeless, so they told me that I could go to the nearby

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church and get a free cup of coffee, if I was cold. Oh a free cuppa, did you take up that offer at all?

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Well what do you think I'm going to do, leave sight of them? No I just stayed where I was.

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Sure, sure, sometimes the best thing to do is ignore isn't it? Yeah, those sorts of things.

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I'll tell you what actually, do you remember your first tape of surveillance in your very first week here?

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Yes I do, yes. Do you want to hear it? Not really, but go on.

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Oh we're going to play the tape anyway, here we go.

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Hi there, welcome to Detective Diaries once again.

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Sat here with me is Jess Clayton at the end of a first week as a private detective and fingerprint

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technician. I want to hear an outlook now, and in time in the future. Jessica, so a weekend private

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investigation, how's it working out so far? Well a week seems like a lifetime ago now, what did I do

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on Monday? I was, started off in the office Monday, learning all the basics, sort of the admin side,

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taking phone calls, how to bool appointments, that kind of thing. I think it was Tuesday was in London,

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London office all day, taking fingerprints for clients. Wednesday was the office again,

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sort of still learning the basics, trying to pick it all up and Thursday I went out on my first

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observation. Well how did that feel? It was exciting, yeah I mean we didn't see a lot,

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not a lot happened, but it was nice to get a feel for how that sort of works. So what were you doing

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just sitting with the newspaper with the eyes cut out, or what exactly? Not quite, no, so I was

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sat in my car sort of sat around watching, but there was no newspaper involved. But you enjoyed it?

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I did enjoy it, yeah. I mean enjoy it a little bit, a lot, or are there those big wow moments.

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Well it would have been more interesting if something happened, not a lot happened,

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so I think it would have been a bit more wow if we actually got what we went for, but yeah,

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unfortunately that's just the way it works sometimes, so we didn't get anything in the afternoon.

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So what are the clients like, do you interact well with them? Most of them are lovely, very understanding

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people. Some of them can be a bit difficult especially over the phone, sometimes it's hard to understand

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people, the language barriers, we deal with clients from all across the world. But yeah, I mean

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each client is different, you know, you get some that answer phone, "Oh hi, how are you?"

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You answer the phone and they're shouting at you already, so it is different, it is different,

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but yeah most of them are lovely. Sounds like you need a lot of patience though, but what about the

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people you work with or is that the wrong question to ask? Wow, everyone is lovely, Nigel,

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you're a bit annoying sometimes, I must admit, but everyone else is lovely. I knew it was the wrong

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question to ask. Tova's messy. Oh really? Sometimes. Tell us more about how Tova's messy.

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Well, her desk is messy sometimes. Chaotic disorganisation or chaotic organisation?

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Chaotic organisation, I would give her that, she is very organised.

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A lot of people apply for this job. Yeah. Why you? Well, not to brag, but

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go on, brag. I would say, you know, sort of studying at uni just helped me gain the

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skill set for this job. Not to mention it did also help that Tova was my housemate at university,

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and she did get the job a few months before me, so that was That sounds a bit

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nepotistic. It's a bit of a helping hand.Lets not go down that road too much, so what

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did you do at university? Which university? I went to the University of Portsmouth,

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and you studied criminology and forensics. Good degree? Yes. You going to tell?

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It was okay. I learnt very quickly that I preferred the forensic side more so than the criminology,

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but it was very interesting. I did a lot of lab work that I found very interesting, a lot of practicals.

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That's cool. Dissertation? What was the subject? I did how decomposition affects the

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persistence of semen on decomposing skin. That's an interesting choice. What prompted that?

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Well, to be honest, there's a lot of uncertainty around the topic, so I was just interested in

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finding out more, because there was literally, I think, one or two other studies that did exactly what I

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was on. So yeah, I was just intrigued to find out the results of that. So what do you think the next few

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days, weeks or months are going to hold for you? Just keep doing what I'm doing, keep learning. I'm in

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London for the next few days, which will be exciting. I'm going back to the place that I was

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last week for another observation tomorrow, so we will see if we will get anything this time.

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But yeah, you sound like you've learnt very, very quickly. Would you come back in a while, perhaps in

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a few weeks' time to tell us more about your experiences? Yes, yeah. Thanks, Jess. You're welcome.

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Good luck with everything. Thank you. Well, thanks for making me listen to that. It was pretty

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cringy, but you asked me to come back and talk about my experiences, so here I am. Yeah, I mean,

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do you think much has changed since? Well, having been involved in more mobile cases, I've learnt that it's

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far more than just sitting around and, talking about that, going back to my case. You know, after the

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errands and the nails, the subject heads to a friend's house. Pretty normal. I'm thinking, all right,

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maybe she's staying there for a while. And then suddenly she comes out, gets into a taxi and the taxi

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starts heading towards the airport, and that's when the adrenaline hits. It's that moment where your

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brain goes, okay, now we're doing this. You shift from a slow pace morning to a full-on follow mode.

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So there are so many little challenges people don't realise that come with surveillance.

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Staying focused during long quiet period is one. Keeping eyes on someone when in crowded public

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spaces is another. You blend in, but you've also got to be ready to move at a seconds notice.

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And airports, well, they're just a whole different environment. You know, once the subject goes through

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security, that's where the job usually stops, because you can't follow them beyond that point.

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It becomes a time race to gather what you need before you lose visual contact. You know, one thing

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people always ask is whether it feels strange following someone around all day. And, you know,

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the truth is, you learn to stay emotionally neutral. You're not there to judge, you're not there to

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interfere, you're there to observe and document professionally and respectfully. So you handle

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sensitive information and you treat it seriously. That's something I learned quickly. And honestly,

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some parts of surveillance can be unintentionally funny, like sitting in your car, watching someone

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get the nails done for an hour, thinking, this is my life right now. Or suddenly watching a calm day

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turn into an airport chase. It's those unpredictable twists that make the job what it is.

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So for someone who's been doing this for eight years, surely you've had many unexpected circumstances?

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Yeah, I mean, it kind of goes back to my point earlier about it's always the neighbours, you know,

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whenever there's an issue, it's always the neighbours. But, no, I mean, unforeseen circumstances.

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I remember when we were in Grand Canaria traveling down from Los Picos De las Nieves,

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which is essentially the mountain peaks and the highest point of the island.

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Yeah, I mean, we're following this car downhill, me and the colleague, we're thinking,

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something smells quite burnt. And turns out, because we're having to break so hard, you know,

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near vertical roads at this point, cars having a bit of trouble. So we're kind of half hoping

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that we can actually get to the end of the road and not end up in some sort of accident.

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You can imagine we're having words with the hire company after that one, but,

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yeah, I'm foreseen, you can't make it up and you just have to adapt.

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So with us, you know, it was move with it and just try not to break as much.

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Yeah, well, in all these sorts of cases, they're humanistic, you know, you set out a plan and it

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always changes. It's just the nature of this job, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

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Well, thank you for joining us in today's episode. If you've enjoyed this topic on surveillance,

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be sure to look at our specialist episodes where we delve into some of the more unusual services

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Answers Investigation provides. From chasing criminals on the streets to leading operations inside

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one of the UK's most secure sites, my police career has been anything but ordinary.

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I'm Rob Hoblin, and in my episode of Detective Diaries, I'm pulling back the curtain on my journey

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through the ranks. The stories that have stayed with me and what it's really like to serve.

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So if you've ever wondered what life's really like behind the badge, tune in here on Detective Diaries.

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This episode concludes season one of Detective Diaries. Please stay with us for season two.

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And thank you to our growing group of listeners who have liked, subscribed, and recommended us.

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We alternate episodes between a study of some of the investigative techniques we use day

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to day with interesting interviews with people we meet and associate with. From interpreters to

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Shakespeare production companies and senior police officers. Coming up in season two, a historic

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delve into the life of Frederick Abberline, the lead detective in the Jack The Ripper case,

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a fascinating interview with Emma Short, criminology lecturer. Part two of our conversation with James

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Lupton and more of his interpreting experiences in Columbia, together with a second visit to Guildford

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Shakespeare Company. Add in a world of insights into the world of investigation and more secrets of our

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profession. Making this series has been a journey of pleasure. We have made many new friends and

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revisited old. I would like to thank in no particular order Georgia Burgess,

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Neve Luby, James Lupton, Eli Merton, Robert Hoblin, Jessica Clayton, Tova Copeman,

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Etienne Middleton, Harry Watts for their contributions. And particular thanks to Jim,

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Freya, Adina, AC, Etienne, and Deb for the Intro's and Readings. Get involved with us,

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send your podcast ideas or suggestions as to who you would like to see interviewed to podcast

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at private-detectives.co.uk. The email is in the show notes and if you've missed any episodes,

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they are all available on Spotify, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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See you next season, available in a few days time. Keep listening and until next time, stay curious

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and keep seeking the truth.

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Podcast

'On Surveillance'

TRANSCRIPT

Private Detective Surveillance

"searching the world for answers"